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Aneena

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PostSubject: Crucial in an application   Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:43 am

I was talking to some friends at the Commission dealing with stagiaires' applications.

Crucial things:
-you absolutely need international experience (studies, internship, work)
-additional points are given for knowledge of languages, but ONLY if there is a proof (otherwise it doesn't count at all)
-final university grade counts a lot

Of course even without knowing many languages or international experience you might get preselected if you're lucky enough to come from a country with few applicants. But if you're Spanish, Italian, Polish etc. it might be tough/impossible.

Hope this helps Smile
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aszemela



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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:06 pm

I am from one of this country and i still have a hope;) good luck for everyone who belives that will succed;)
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mariabernarda



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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:19 pm

Aneena, thanks your the tips. What about work experience, but not international, but in your own country, doesn't count very much? I am not very happy about the fact that only with a proof they take languages in consideration, I've learnt Italian alone and have no proof for it. But if this is the procedure...
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Aneena

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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:59 am

From what I understood you get points automatically, so it is objective. There are tables that tell how many points you get for what and the person examining your application can't change anything, even if your application is very impressive, but doesn't fit into the table.

International experience gives you points (studies, work, internship etc.), work in your own country no points at all (I think work is not part of the grading). Languages - only the ones with a proof count, you get more points depending on the languages (not sure if the number or level or both).

But I might be slightly wrong, I was talking to some friends doing the grading and this is more or less what they told me or what I remembered. This would explain why there are many stagiaires with no work experience at all or from unknown universities - you don't get more points for Harvard than for a local uni in your town - you simply get points for graduating. However if you have a degree from Harvard it would give you points both for graduating and international experience (which you could also gain by doing Erasmus).

Motivation gives you many points and this is the part where you could make a big difference. 90% of the motivation letters say "I always wanted to work at the Commission" "I would like to make a difference in the world" "I would like to make a career at the European institutions" "It was always my dream" "I would like to work in an international multucultural and multilingual environment" "This will be an unforgettable experience" "The European idea is close to my heart" and other empty bla bla showing the candidate has no clue about the institutions, no clue about the work he/she would like to perform, no clue what she/he could contribute to the system. Apparently you won't get many points for writing this kind of stuff.

Why don't you sign up for some exam of Italian to have a paper proving you speak it? Or a course at the university? It's always worth having a paper.
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mariabernarda



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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:29 pm

Thank you, Aneena for the great advice and information. I'll eventually sign up for an exam Smile
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lakika



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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:21 pm

About what kind of proof do we talk about? is it enough some paper from language school or from the university?
for me it it also a little bit silly, I have learnt spanish on my own, I was erasmus in Spain and I speak fluent spanish but do not have any proof sooooo...

just one question more: now we only need to fill in online application? nothing more? nothing to sent via post?
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Aneena

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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:29 am

You send all the documents via post. If you did Erasmus in Spain, I suppose you have some kind of document - from the university, language school or whatever. Check in the application rules what documents exactly they require, but I remember sending a paper from the university course to prove my knowledge of Spanish.
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Avo



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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:54 am

Hi there Smile I have a quick question. I am currently doing a masters and I will be done by the time the internship starts in March, but not when I apply. So, is there a place on the application where I can state that and will they consider it a plus or not even look at it since it's not completed as of the time of submission of the application? Thanks Smile
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Husker



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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:25 am

There is a section for your ongoing studies don't worry ;-) And I guess it is considered as a plus.
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Avo



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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:27 pm

Thanks Betelgeusian! Wink
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Aneena

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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:46 am

I'm not sure if you get any additional points for additional studies. I might be wrong, but it is possible that you get the same number of points for bachelor, master, phd or if you're a professor. I think all that counts is the final grade, no matter what degree you have.
If somebody knows more about that share it here, as I only hear bits and pieces of information from different people, not always very coherent.
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Husker



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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:49 pm

From what I heard, getting points for your academic background is quite hard and every degree counts.

In this document I found on Google, which is an evaluation of the traineeship programme made in 2008, it is said that:
Quote :

Members of the pre-selection committees meet on a particular day and are requested to examine application files, taking the following elements into consideration:
  • The final marks obtained for undergraduate (and postgraduate) degrees/diplomas – a balanced assessment should also take account of the candidate’s specialisations, as well as the academic institutions at which they studied.

  • Additional diplomas or degrees obtained, other particular studies and academic experience.

  • The relationship between the DGs selected by the candidate (particularly first choice) and his/her academic qualifications

  • Reasons for applying in general, and motives for selecting specific DGs – justifications,
    explanations, motivation, etc.

  • Linguistic knowledge – the knowledge of one working language of the Commission is compulsory (DE, EN or FR), any additional language is an advantage.

  • Relevant professional experience (if applicable).

  • The overall presentation of the application – looking for clear reasoning and expression, accuracy of data, order and relevance of attached documents, etc.
Obviously, some of the criteria are out of date since we don't have to select specific DGs anymore.

I hope it helps!
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Aneena

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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:00 pm

As a matter of fact I know for sure that the academic institutions don't count at all. The points are given automatically and no matter if you studied in Oxford or on one of the half-illegal online universities from my country that give you a degree just for paying tuition - you get points based on your final grade and that's it. This seems fair in a way, as how can you judge somebody just by the university he/she finished - maybe the person studied in her/his village and was a great student but couldn't afford studying anywhere else in a famous institution... The grading system has to be objective and it would be extremely difficult to make a scale saying "Oxford - 5 points, Ljubljana - 3 points, some little unknown uni - 0 points".

As I said the additional degrees either give you no points at all, or maybe you get half a point or something similar but quite disappointing.
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Husker



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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:14 pm

I agree with you. But the process is quite opaque and the informal criteria change every year so it's difficult to know.
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mariabernarda



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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Sat May 18, 2013 12:03 am

I also find the selection criteria opaque, I would really like the EC to make available for each candidate once we get the answer to receive our application with the points, so that each can see his application and where it failed, why do we have to ask for it in an extra mail? Why don't they make it available on your application profile, would be so useful and simple...
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travisfull



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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Sat May 18, 2013 11:44 am

Aneena wrote:
From what I understood you get points automatically, so it is objective. There are tables that tell how many points you get for what and the person examining your application can't change anything, even if your application is very impressive, but doesn't fit into the table.

International experience gives you points (studies, work, internship etc.), work in your own country no points at all (I think work is not part of the grading). Languages - only the ones with a proof count, you get more points depending on the languages (not sure if the number or level or both).

But I might be slightly wrong, I was talking to some friends doing the grading and this is more or less what they told me or what I remembered. This would explain why there are many stagiaires with no work experience at all or from unknown universities - you don't get more points for Harvard than for a local uni in your town - you simply get points for graduating. However if you have a degree from Harvard it would give you points both for graduating and international experience (which you could also gain by doing Erasmus).

Motivation gives you many points and this is the part where you could make a big difference. 90% of the motivation letters say "I always wanted to work at the Commission" "I would like to make a difference in the world" "I would like to make a career at the European institutions" "It was always my dream" "I would like to work in an international multucultural and multilingual environment" "This will be an unforgettable experience" "The European idea is close to my heart" and other empty bla bla showing the candidate has no clue about the institutions, no clue about the work he/she would like to perform, no clue what she/he could contribute to the system. Apparently you won't get many points for writing this kind of stuff.

Why don't you sign up for some exam of Italian to have a paper proving you speak it? Or a course at the university? It's always worth having a paper.

Aneena what about the motivation letter?
We should write the we really would like to work in the EU? What are the directions for a good motivation letter?
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TCRVR



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Join date : 2013-05-06

PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Sat May 18, 2013 1:33 pm

I was selected for the Translation Traineeship starting in October. I would like to say that I did a Bachelor in Law at my local University, then I did a Master in Law in another local University. I had good grades in the Bachelor and very good grades in the Master.
I speak Portuguese as mother tongue, English and German very well, and a bit of French and Spanish. I do not have an international experience at an academic level. I did have one at high school, but i don't even have proof of it, so i just talked about it in the motivation letter.
I do think that you have to have some luck to be selected... I was not expecting to be selected, as this turn almost 2500 Portuguese were applying.
I do think that the motivation letter is very important!! Make the best you can to impress them Wink Many times, i think that is what differentiates the candidates!
Hope I helped Smile
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Anne1980



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PostSubject: un conte de fées   Sun May 19, 2013 3:58 pm

Come on , please..you know it sound you are from teh HR DG but...tell me ...my example,
Bachelor in Law
Master in International Relations,
Courses at the EU University Institute Italy
PhD in International Security
Attending conferences around the world (paying myself)
5 living and very useful languages,
6 months internship in a OOII (UN HQ)
Worked in private enterprises

1 book published and 1 article published ina very known OOII about International security


BUT.....I do not have enough points!!!!!....come on!!!!

I attached a mail form someone from the Commission that was interested in myself this was last december 2012 ....I want to show you how really works:

Dear Axxxx ,   Thank you for your e-mail. You have a very impressive CV and I would really like to have you here as a trainee.   However, as I looked into this issue how this is administratively possible, it appears that all trainee slots are taken for 2013 in our directorate, and the system here does not allow great flexibility to recruit additional trainees.   As this is pity for both of us, and I really would like to help you, I would suggest I will put you into contact with xxx




So the posts were already given in december 2012 for the internship year 2013...

Vive la Meritocratie!!!
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Idealo



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Join date : 2013-05-19

PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Sun May 19, 2013 5:58 pm

There's one problem with these crucial aspects. If I remember well from the online application, you can only chose one language as our native language. This means that you need a certificate for your other possible mother language. Doesn't that seems strange to you guys? (Maybe I'm wrong tough…)
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Elanor



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Join date : 2012-12-06

PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Sun May 19, 2013 8:17 pm

Yeah that is strange indeed. I just included a note saying that my father is Austrian and I therefore also speak German fluently. No idea if they take that into account or not. I did include my high school diploma which lists German as well (it was compulsory).
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Aneena

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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Tue May 21, 2013 9:36 am

Anne: why don't you contact the traineeships office and ask for a feedback on your points? This way you will know why you were not preselected. It's not true that all trainee slots are taken for 2013 - it's simply not possible, as the places are being distributed now. At least for the Blue Book trainees.

If you applied for a non-Blue Book traineeship (the unpaid one), then it is possible that they already have all the slots taken, I don't know much about this type of traineeship.
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travisfull



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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Tue May 21, 2013 2:17 pm

Aneena wrote:
Anne: why don't you contact the traineeships office and ask for a feedback on your points? This way you will know why you were not preselected. It's not true that all trainee slots are taken for 2013 - it's simply not possible, as the places are being distributed now. At least for the Blue Book trainees.

If you applied for a non-Blue Book traineeship (the unpaid one), then it is possible that they already have all the slots taken, I don't know much about this type of traineeship.

If you ask for a feedback on your points, you will receive an email stating which one was the threshold and how many points do you have below the threshold. The deliberations of the pre-selection commitees are confidential...

no words.
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Aneena

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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Tue May 21, 2013 5:17 pm

Really? When I was doing my traineeship they gave the detailed number of points for every section in the application, but maybe they changed that now.. :/
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travisfull



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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Tue May 21, 2013 5:37 pm

Aneena wrote:
Really? When I was doing my traineeship they gave the detailed number of points for every section in the application, but maybe they changed that now.. :/

They probably change. What you can get its only your score compared to the threshold.
In simple words: you can't actually have nothing to get a better score next round.
If you don't know where you went wrong, you can't improve your application.

So sad.
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eeritrejaa



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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Thu May 23, 2013 12:11 pm

Anne1980 wrote:
Come on , please..you know it sound you are from teh HR DG but...tell me ...my example,
Bachelor in Law
Master in International Relations,
Courses at the EU University Institute Italy
PhD in International Security
Attending conferences around the world (paying myself)
5 living and very useful languages,
6 months internship in a OOII (UN HQ)
Worked in private enterprises

1 book published and 1 article published ina very known OOII about International security


BUT.....I do not have enough points!!!!!....come on!!!!

I attached a mail form someone from the Commission that was interested in myself this was last december 2012 ....I want to show you how really works:

Dear Axxxx ,   Thank you for your e-mail. You have a very impressive CV and I would really like to have you here as a trainee.   However, as I looked into this issue how this is administratively possible, it appears that all trainee slots are taken for 2013 in our directorate, and the system here does not allow great flexibility to recruit additional trainees.   As this is pity for both of us, and I really would like to help you, I would suggest I will put you into contact with xxx




So the posts were already given in december 2012 for the internship year 2013...

Vive la Meritocratie!!!

Dear Anne,
your CV is so impressing and I am really wondering why do you want to do a traineeship? Why not apply for a "real" position within the institutions of EU (take EPSO test first etc.)? It is clearly stated that trainees are supposed to be young graduates. You have good education and working experiences. I'm also a lawyer with two years of working experiences, international experiences etc. and even I am wondering if I am maybe too old or too experienced for traineeship. I know traineeship is just a start and it might take you somewhere, but I think you could easily "jump over" this step and go directly to a position within EU or UN.

Good luck!!
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mariabernarda



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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:48 pm

Hi everyone, just wondering: why is it impossible for the Commission to tell you the exact score or to make public for you on your profile the points on different sections to give you the chance to make your application better? It makes me wonder what reasons there would be for a non-transparent procedure and if it makes any sense to apply at all... 
I have friends with so very good profile, international experience and languages, many nationalities, and trying for years... If the results/ points would be published on website, no questions about the non-transparency would be in our minds... But this way it makes us wonder if it is 100% based on fairness... I really doubt... and it is not because I did not got pre-selected, but from my experience and from what I read here and hear from people I know...
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pupsik



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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:40 pm

I have another question - how do we choose the DG? or is it the area of interest?
sorry if this is a silly question; this is my first time applying.
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LittleMissAmused



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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:36 am

pupsik wrote:
I have another question - how do we choose the DG? or is it the area of interest?
sorry if this is a silly question; this is my first time applying.

I plan to choose the one to which my profile fits the best - closest to my studies, previous experience... I guess that is where I have the most chance of succeeding Wink
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helenam



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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:56 pm

Hi ,

I'm applying for the March 2014 session and I have a question concerning the "preferred employment area", I hope someone can help me. I want to do the traineeship at the DG EAC (because my field of expertise is in Cultural and Heritage Studies) but the list presents areas and not departments and I'm not sure what to choose, because my academic background doesn't fit in those categories (legal, scientific research, etc.). Should I choose "other" and in the "motivation for the choice" explain why I want to intern there?
Thanks and good luck to all!
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PostSubject: Re: Crucial in an application   Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:37 pm

Hi,

I am writing my application and am wondering what is the difference between the two fields under the section "Area of interest". Basically I do not quite differentiate between the questions "Motivation for the choice" and "Why do you consider your profile suitable for this area?". I don't see how one could write both texts without dealing mainly with previous studies and work experience. And also since both fields allow you to write up to 2000 characters, I'm assuming they actually expect some well written arguments. Other applicants or former applicants, any suggestions on this? Thanks, much appreciated!
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